[construyendo] Evangelion 2.0 CRC: entrevista a Anno

Documentos Canon, Entrevistas, Etc

[construyendo] Evangelion 2.0 CRC: entrevista a Anno

Notapor Deyno » Dom Jun 12, 2011 6:17 am

Fuentepor 1731298478









Original Japones/Ingles
Oculto:
大きく変えたきっかけは『序』次回予告の反響
The response to the "Break" preview as the impetus for major changes

---『破』に関してお聞きしていきたいと思います。『破』と『序』と並行でシナリオや設定などプリプロダクションを開発されてましたよね。それは連続して制作、公開する予定だったからだと思います。その方針が大きく変わり、『序』の公開時にあったシナリオを改訂していくことになった経緯からおうかがいしたいです。変わった時期としては、やはり『序』の公開された直後でしょうか。
--- I'd like to ask you about "Break." Preproduction for "Break" - including work on the scenario and the "settei" [1] - was underway at the same time as "Prelude." That was because, I think, they were consecutive works, planned to be successively released. That plan was significantly changed. I'd like to hear how it came about that you revised the script that existed at the time of the "Prelude" premiere. Things changed just following the premiere, right?

[1] Lit. "establishment." As far as I understand it, "settei" refers to all designs, drawings, and information used to establish or flesh out the world of the animation and its characters, and to inform and direct the process of animation itself.

庵野 そうですね。それからですね、大きく変更したのは。
Anno: Right. It was from that point that the big changes were made.

---いろんな取材から推察すると、『序』の現場が佳境に入る前にシナリオができていたようですね。樋口(真嗣)さんもその時点のバージョンのシナリオでコンテを描かれたとおっしゃってます。
--- If I was to make a conjecture on the basis of the various [CRC] interviews, during work on "Prelude" there was a version of the script that did not yet include the most interesting parts. [*] (Shinji) Higuchi-san said that he had drawn storyboards based upon the script at that time.

庵野 確かにホン(脚本)は『序』の作業と並行して二〇〇七年の三月まで書いていますね。脚本第11稿というのが決定稿になっています。絵コンテもそれ以前の脚本から『序』と並行して作業を進めていて、分量的には全体の三分の二ぐらいは、すでに第一稿が上がっていたと思います。『序』が終わったら現場の間を空けず、連続して『破』を作業に入る予定でしたから。しかし、それはかないませんでしたね。公開後に、二本目の内容はゼロスタートで見直そうと決めてしまったので。
Anno: Certainly, a script had been written by March 2007, at the same time "Prelude" was being made. The eleventh draft became the final version of that script. Work on the storyboards was also taking place during "Prelude" from that earlier version of the script. From the point of view of quantity, I think the first drafts were already completed for about two thirds of the whole. That's because we had planned to begin work on "Break" without any pause or interruption once "Prelude" was finished. However, I couldn't live up to it. After the premiere [of "Prelude"], I decided to look again at the content of the second part, starting from zero.

---それは、『序』で観客の反応がすごく良かったということが大きな理由ですか。
--- Was the highly favorable reaction of the viewers at the premiere a significant reason for that?

庵野 ええ。まずは新宿ミラノ座での「予告」の反応を聞いてからですね。劇場映画ですが、シリーズと同じフォーマットにしたかったので、「予告」は企画当初から入れるつもりでした。いつもの曲だし、サービスとして旧作からのお客さんも喜んでくれるだろうと。しかし、あそこまで反響が大きいとは予想外でした。本来、二本目まで間が空くし、その緩和のためにも最後に「予告」をつけることで期待値を盛り上げ、お客さんの中にはここがピークになる人もいるだろうとある程度は予測もしていましたが、思っていた以上でしたね。特に新キャラです、予想外に反応が大きかったのは。
Anno: Yeah. It started after I heard the reaction to the preview at the Milano theater in Shinjuku. ["Prelude"] was a theatrical film, but because I wanted the format to be the same as the TV series, I intended from the beginning to insert a "preview" [at the end]. The same music would be used. I thought, as "service," it would please the viewers of the original work. However, I didn't expect that big a reaction. Originally, I thought, because there would be a "gap" until the second part, attaching a preview at the end would increase the viewers' anticipation. I also expected that, among the viewers, there would be some for whom this [preview] would be "peak" of the film. However, this was more than I imagined. In particular, the reaction to the new character was bigger than I expected.

---私の行った劇場でも、最後の最後でもものすごく盛り上がってました。
--- At the theater I went to, [the crowd] was extremely charged up, even at the very end.

庵野 そうなんです。あそこまで期待されるとは、思っていませんでした。観に行っていたスタッフも感動して、興奮してましたね。
Anno: Right. I didn't expect that much. The staff who went to see [the film] were also deeply impressed and excited [by the reaction].

最初に考えていたプロットでは、新キャラが大きく活躍するのは三本目からだったんです。二本目は顔見せ的な、ちょっとした出番でしか考えていませんでした。旧作から出ているので、あまり新キャラというイメージはないんですが、実はアスカも『新劇場版』では二本目から出てくる重要な新キャラなんです。なので、どうしてもアスカにウエイトがかかるだろうから、二本目ではまだ新キャラはそんなに重く扱う気はなかったんです。しかし、観客の新キャラに対するあれだけの期待には、もう応えるしかないだろうと、出番を増やす方向に路線変更となりました。まずそこから二本目の見直し作業を始めた感じです。『破』に関する意識が大きく変わったのは「予告」の反応の大きさ、お客さんの熱量によってですね。そこに僕の心が動かされ、作品の舵が大きく動き出したんです。
In the first version of the plot I thought of, the new character would have a very active role from the third part on. I didn't think the chracter would do any more than make an appearance in the second part. Although, because she appeared in the original series, she doesn't seem much like a new character, Asuka was also a highly important "new character" who, in the Rebuild films, would appear from the second part on. Because I would surely place emphasis upon [?] Asuka, I didn't intend to seriously deal with a new character in the second part. However, there was so much anticipation for the new character among the viewers that I felt I had to respond to that. So, I decided to increase the number of the new character's appearances. It was at that point that I first began the work of reviewing the second part. The strength of the response to the preview, the intensity of the viewers, significantly changed the way I looked at "Break." It moved my heart, and the "rudder" of the work began to significantly shift.

---実際の作業はどう変わっていったのでしょうか。
--- How did the actual work [process] change?

庵野 中身、つまり脚本もありますが、まずは作り方、作業方式の見直しからですね。
Anno: There was the content of the film, the script, but I began by looking at how I was making the films.

一本目 『序』のときは中途半端にTV版の再現にこだわっていた気がするんです。とにかくお金もないし人手もないし時間もかけられないので、過去の素材をうまく組み直そうと。再現することに細かくこだわり過ぎて、タイムシートのタイミングもそのまま変えずに作っていました。で、『序』の途中で「別に、シート変えてもいいじゃん」と気づいたんですよ。妙な感じかもしれませんが、なんだか「デジタル撮影の新作」なのに「フィルムの再編集」という一等最初の「言葉」にとらわれ過ぎていたんです。『序』の初号試写のときに「ここまで全面的に画を直すんだったら、もっと画コンテから描き換えても良かったんじゃないか」とも感じました。基本コンセプトとしてあえて旧作と同じところから始める、というのがあったですが、逆にそこにこだわりすぎた感じもありました。なので、二本目からはもう旧作へのこだわり的なものは捨てて、全部新作の気持ちで作ろうと。ゼロからの出発です。
During the making of the first part, "Prelude," I feel like I was half-fixated [?] on reenacting the TV series. Because we had lacked money, workers, and time, I wanted to recreate the old material. I was so fixated on the idea of reenaction that I was making [the film] without deviating from the timing of the [original] timesheets. Half-way through I realized that it was okay to alter the timesheets. Although it might seem strange, despite [the film being] a kind of "new, digital satsuei [2] work," I was overly hung up on the initial phrase, "film remake." During the initial screening of "Prelude," I felt that, if I had gone this far in updating all the images, I could have deviated a bit more from the [original] storyboards. [?] The original conception was that the films would start out from the same place as the TV series, but I felt I was too fixated upon that place. So, from the second part onwards, I intended to abandon those elements "fixated" on the original series and proceed with the feeling that I was making an entirely new work. I would set out from "ground zero."

[2] Lit. "photography" - process of convering cels to film. I believe CG and so on is added at this time.

まずは、当然ながら脚本から直していこうと思いました。脚本もその段階ではまだまだ旧作に沿った展開をしていたり、原画流用などを念頭に置いたものだったので、そこから変えていこうと。プロット、箱書を一度まっさらの状態に戻したところでゼロから見直したです。そこで全体的ストーリの流れ、ドラマの検証と、マリという新キャラ確立のために、監督陣と鶴巻の声がけで改めて参加してくれた榎戸(洋司)さんとで箱書の検討を主とした合宿をしました。男ばっかり、熱海で二泊三日のカンヅメ状態です。そのときに摩砂雪から「タイトル明けは墓参りから始めたい」とか、榎戸さんから「シンジとマリがラブラブになる」などの斬新なアイデアやプロットの大幅な修正案も出てきて。それからですね、大幅な見直し作業が本格始動したのは。
To begin with, I naturally thought I would correct my mistake by altering the script. The scripted plot, at that stage, was still developing in accordance with the original work, and with a view to utilizing the genga [3] of the original work, so from that point I decided to make changes. I returned the plot and the outline to their initial state and rexamined things from the beginning. In order to examine the drama and the course of the plot as a whole, and to establish the new character, Mari, I held a retreat. This mainly involved scrutinizing the outline with the directoral camp and (Yoji) Enokido-san, who was participating once again [owing to Tsurumaki's suggestion ?]. It was only men; we shut ourselves up in Atami for three days and two nights. At that point new ideas and drastic amendments to the plot were proposed - for example, Masayuki's suggestion that, following the main title, the film begin with the graveyard visit, or Enokido-san's suggestion of a Shinji-Mari "Love Love" pairing. From that point, a full-scale revision had seriously begun.

[3] Lit. "original images" or "primary images" - key animation cels (I believe).

---アバンでマリが出てくること自体は変わっていませんか。
--- No changes were made to Mari's appearance in the pre-title sequence itself?

庵野 そうですね。「マリや仮設5号機、第3の使徒など、これまで見たことがないキャラやメカ、箱根ではないベタニアベースという新たな舞台をド頭から出す」という内容は、箱書の第一稿から変わりませんでした。戦闘の段取りやマリのセイフ、性格などは変化していますが、アバンの物語の流れそのものは変わってないです。旧作からの客さんにも、初めて『破』から入る一見さんにも、インパクトを味わってほしかったので。旧作を知っている人には知らないこと尽くしで唐突ながらも、加持という人物で共通項を得ていると、とりあえずは安心してもらえるかなと。セリフが日本語字幕で英語とロシア語スタートというもそうです。まずはこれまでと違う印象から映画を始めたかったんです。
Anno: Right. Mari and the provisional Unit-05, the third angel, and so on - the idea of beginning with this character and this mecha that we've never seen before, and this new setting, "Bethany Base," outside of Hakone - this remained unchanged from the first draft outline. The plan of the battle, Mari's dialogue and personality - these sort of things changed, but the course itself, the general course of the story of the pre-title seqeunce, didn't change. I wanted it to impact both viewers of the original series and people for whom "Break" was their first time seeing Eva. I thought that, although people familiar with the original series would be overwhelmed with unfamilar things [?], because of Kaji, there was a common denominator which could enable them to feel secure for the moment. Starting with English and Russian dialogue with Japanese subtitles was the same. First of all, I wanted to begin the film with the impression of things being different than they have been up until now.

---仮設5号機も見慣れた二足歩行型のEVAではありませんでした。
--- The provisional Unit-05 was not a familiar EVA with a "bipedal" form.

庵野 そうですね。すぐに区別できる形状の見慣れないEVAを登場させたいというのと、アバンはEVAも使徒もフルCGにした画面づくりをやってみたかったんです。フルCGでの戦闘自体が『エヴァ』では見慣れない映像でアバン向けだし、フルCGでどこまでEVAの戦闘ができるのか、技術的なところや制作上の段取りなども含めて試せればいいか、という実験的意図もあります。複雑な形状、ディテールや、四脚など手描きでは大変な手間暇がかかり、なかなか描きづらいデザインにして、走行や動きもCGでなければ効率良く描けない戦闘場面というものを、この機会に試してみたかったんです。使徒もCG前提の複雑なデザインにまとめました。背動(背景動画)という、これまたCG向きな演出の画づくりも含めてですね。あと、アバンだと作品の冒頭なので制作スケジュールも十分あるだろうと。だったら、フルCGの戦闘場面をアニマティクスとか使って、いろいろと問題点があっても検討、検証時間があるんじゃないかという目論みもありました。
Anno: Right. I wanted to introduce an unfamiliar Eva with a form you could immediately identify as different. I also wanted, for the pre-title sequence, to try to create fully CG images, including the angel and the Eva. A fully CG battle was itself, within Eva, an unfamiliar image, [so I wanted to use it] for the pre-title sequence. I also had an "experimental" intention. To what extent was a fully CG Eva battle possible? I thought it would be good if we could test technical things out or experiment with how things are set up within the work. The form and details were complex, with the four legs, and so on. It would have taken a lot of time and effort to draw by hand; the design is considerably difficult to draw. It was a battle scene where the movement and so on couldn't be efficiently drawn if we didn't use CG, so I wanted to take this opportunity to experiment with it. We had also put together a complex design for the angel intended to be rendered in CG. The background animation was also something where its creation was directed with an eye to CG. [?] I figured, in addition, that the pre-title sequence was the beginning of the work, so there was plenty of time left on the production schedule. Even if there were various difficulties with a full CG battle scene, I figured that we had plenty of time to investigate the difficulties using animatics [4] and so on.

[4] I'm not very familiar with the term; see NAveryW's reply below.

でもこれは結局、諸々で時間がなくなって、アニマティクスもうまく作用したカットがありますが、総括するとあまり思惑どうりとはいかず、ちと残念でした。手描きのエフェクトを追加したり、CGの爆発を取り入れたり、撮影処理も含め時間がいっぱいぎりぎりまであれこれ試行錯誤し続けた結果、画面としてのでき上がりにはその甲斐があったと思いますが。
However, in the end, for various reasons, we ran out of time. There were cuts that worked well in the animatics, but, to sum things up, they didn't really go as planned, which was a bit unfortunate. [?] Among other things, we added in hand-drawn effects, and introduced CG explosions. Including the satsuei treatment, we continued experimenting with various things until we almost ran out of time. As an on-screen image, I think the final result paid off. However...

---『序』でもEVAはCGを使っていましたが、アクションが加わってぐっと進化しましたね。
--- CG was used in "Prelude," but here there is more action, and things have much progressed.

庵野 そうですね。EVAをうまく描ける原画マンが限られている中でクォリティの維持と向上を意図するなら、歩く、走るなどの動きが本来リピートで済むみたいなところは極力CGに置き換えたいな、という考えは当初からありました。使徒も3号機(第9の使徒)と最後の第10の使徒以外はすべてCG主体でやろうとプロット時から考えていました。『序』の逆パターンです。あとのときは手描きから始まって、最後がフルCGですから。トータルで現場を見たときの手書きとCGの作業量の分散ということも考えて、それを脚本に反映させています。いつも制作的リスクを鑑みて、戦闘シーンの回数や分量も先に決めてから箱書や脚本作業に入っていますね。
Anno: Yeah. With people who can draw the Eva genga really well being limited, if I wanted to maintain or increase the quality - I thought from the outset that I wanted to replace, as much as possible, elements like walking and running movements, which would originally just get repeated [?], with CG. The angels, as well - since I conceived of the plot I intended to make all the angels mostly CG, excluding Unit-03 (the ninth angel) and the final tenth angel - the opposite of the pattern from "Prelude." There, we began with hand-drawn angels, and ended with full CG. I considered the total amount of work to be done and its allocation between hand-drawn and CG parts, and the script reflects that consideration. [?] I always take production-related risks into account, so the number or amount of battle scenes are decided in advance, before starting the script or the script outline.
__________________________________________


改稿に改稿を重ね、難航したシナリオ
A script bogged down in revisions upon revisions

---そのシナリオ作業は、非常に大変な改訂が重なったそうですね。
--- It seems that during the scriptwriting process an enormous number of serious revisions accumulated.

庵野 そうですね。『破』は大小含めろと計四十回以上、脚本の改稿を重ねています。その最初の大きいな変更は、まだ『序』と並行作業していた二〇〇六年の十一月から十二月頭にありました。
Anno: Yeah. Counting both large and small revisions, there was a total of more than forty revisions of the script. The first major changes took place from November 2006 to the start of December, while we were still working on "Prelude."

---それはどんな変更だったのでしょうか。
--- What sort of changes were those?

庵野 3号機のテストパイロットがアスカになったことです。それまではトウジが被験者というTVシリーズの流れのままでした。ただ違うところは、シンジがすでに知っているという点ですね。全体的にそれまでのシナリオではミサトと加持の大人っぽい描写とか、アスカの母への確執とか、アスカが加持に憧れていたり早々にヒカリと仲良くなるとか、いろいろと旧作っぽいニュアンス、テイストがあったんです。また、このころのクライマックスは加持に諭されたシンジが初号機で出撃し、その後レイのシンジを助けるための自己犠牲があり、その悲しみに直面したシンジの心が耐えきれず初号機が暴走するという、TVシリーズの第拾九話と第弐拾参話を合成したような話の流れでした。脚本の第5稿までがその段取りで書かれています。『序』の公開以前にすでに発注済みで第1稿が上がっていたCパートまでの画コンテは、だいたいこの第5稿までをもとに書かれています。
Anno: Asuka became the test pilot for Unit-03. Up until that point Touji had been the test subject, just as in the TV series. The only difference was that Shinji knew that in advance. Up to that point, the script as a whole was filled with various "nuances" reminding of, or "tastes" of, the original series: an "adult" depiction of Kaji and Misato, Asuka's discord with her mother, Asuka's idolization of Kaji and her immediate friendship with Hikari, and so on. In addition, the climax around this time was a kind of synthesis between episodes 19 and 23 of the TV series, where Shinji would be persuaded by Kaji to launch in Unit-01 and Rei would sacrifice herself in order to save Shinji; faced with this grief, Shinji's heart would be unable to bear it, and Unit-01 would go out of control. The drafts up to number five were written according to this plan. [The first draft storyboards up to part C that were requested before the premiere of "Prelude" were generally based upon the drafts of the script written up to this point. ???]

---変わったきっかけは、何だったのでしょう。
--- What was the impetus for the change?

庵野 大きかったのはマッキー(鶴巻和哉監督の愛称)からの意見ですね。「これはただのTVシリーズの総集編で『映画』にならない」と。あと「アスカに映画的役割がほしい。このままではただ顔見せ的に出てくるだけで主人公のシンジに対して何もドラマを与えていないというか、絡んでいない」と。それに「ストーリーとしても旧作との変化が足りない」と矢継ぎ早に話されて。それには「3号機にアスカが乗るくらいの荒療治が必要ではないか」とも話していました。これは、大きな基礎変更となろので何人ものスタッフ意見をリサーチしたところ、賛否両論だったと思います。特に轟木(一騎)が猛反対していましたね。で、考えた末、最終的には鶴巻案を取り入れて3号機パイロットの変更を決めました。それが脚本の第6稿ですね。二〇〇七年の正月明け、一月八日に出していました。この稿では、まだ単純に被験者をトウジからアスカに入れ替えているだけで、その理由も「新パイロットのマリがユーロから本部に赴任して、2号機を降ろされそうなので自ら志願する」という実に行き当たりばったりな感じでした。キャラもシチュエーションも練り込まれないまま、テストパイロットの変更だけを取ってつけた状態です。
Anno: The big thing was the comments made by Makki (Director Kazuya Tsurumaki's pet name). "For this, we can't make films just by summarizing the TV series." He also said, "I want Asuka to have a 'film-like' role. At this rate, she will just be making an appearance - she provides no drama vis-a-vis Shinji, the protagonist; she is not involved." Furthermore, "As a story, it's not different enough from the original series" - all these in succession. He further said, "Isn't a change as drastic as having Asuka pilot Unit-03 necessary?" I think, because this was a major, fundamental change, opinion was divided when I researched the views of a number of staff members. (Ikki) Todoroki, in particular, was tremendously opposed. After thinking about it, I ultimately adopted Tsurumaki's proposal and decided to change the pilot of Unit-03. That was the sixth draft of the script. It was finished following the 2007 new year, on January 8th. In this draft, the test pilot was simply changed from Touji to Asuka, [and the reason for it - Mari, the new pilot, is reassigned to NERV HQ from Europe, and Asuka will be taken off of Unit-02, so she volunteers - was really just improvised. ?] The change of test pilot was forced into the draft, with the characters and situations left unaltered.

で、当然、鶴巻から「TV版のトウジを失ったときと同等のショックと喪失感をシンジ、及び観客に与えねばなりません。そのためにはアスカを思い切って『良いキャラ』として描いていしまうことで、その喪失感を大きく見せたいと考えます」といった提案メモが来て、「うん。それはそうだよな」と。なので、アスカがレイやシンジのため、他人のために何かすることを3号機に乗る理由にしようと。鶴巻の言うところの死亡フラグが立っていく感じですね。結果、3号機にアスカが乗るところを彼女のドラマのピークとすることになりました。あとはそこに合わせて脚本をあちこち変えていました。レイが料理を覚えシンジとゲンドウのために食事会を用意する話と、アスカが3号機に乗るキッカケを絡めるとか、アスカのキャラもセイフなど含め徐々に固定されていった感じでしたね。
So, naturally, I received, and agreed with, a proposal memo sent out by Tsurumaki, which said, "We have to provide Shinji, as well as the audience, with the same degree of shock and sense of loss as when Touji was lost in the TV series. For that reason, by boldly portraying Asuka as a 'good character', I hope to greatly convey that sense of loss." Because of that, I wanted to have Asuka pilot Unit-03 in order to do something for Rei, and Shinji, and others - something for other people. As Tsurumaki put it, it's like a "death flag" is raised. As a result, Asuka piloting Unit-03 ended up being made into the "peak" of her drama. I changed various parts of the script in accordance with this. For example, Asuka's impetus for piloting Unit-03 would connect with the story of Rei [learning to cook and?] preparing a dinner party for Shinji and Gendou. It seemed like these things, as well as Asuka's character, dialogue, and so on, had gradually become solidifed.

マリ以外のCパートまでのストーリーやドラマの流れは、二〇〇七年三月十一日付の脚本第11稿でフィルムと変わらない大まかな形ができています。しかし、Dパートはまだ旧作の流れに沿ったままでした。そこでは第11稿に至るまで、第10の使徒戦での2号機をどうするのかなど、段取りが二転三転しています。「作画や現場に負担がかかるので、いっそのこと2号機を出さない」という鶴巻案から、「マリが乗っている」となり、さらに「意識を失ったアスカをダミーシステムで2号機に乗せる]段取りになって一度落ち着いています。そのラインで本稿は書かれていました。2号機、零号機が敗れてから展開は「使徒に捕食・融合されたレイが初号機のシンジをも取り込もうとして、それに気づいたレイが自爆する」という旧作の流れを踏襲した感じでした。この段階で、いったん脚本作業は止まっています。「今、目の前にある危機」である『序』の作業に集中しないといけなかったので。確か、この稿でシンちゃん(樋口真嗣の愛称)にイメージボードやラストの戦闘シーンの画コンテを一度発注していたと思います。
Aside from Mari, the course of the story and drama up to Part C was roughly the same in the eleventh draft of the script, dated March 11, 2007, as it would be in the film. However, Part D still followed the course of the original series. Up to the eleventh draft, the plan for what would be done with Unit-02 during the battle with the tenth angel - for example - had continually changed. I went from a proposal from Tsurumaki which suggested that, "as it puts pressure on production, it would be better if Unit-02 did not appear [during that scene]", to "Mari will pilot Unit-02," and at one point I even settled on a plan where "an unconscious Asuka will pilot Unit-02 using the dummy system." The eleventh draft [?] was written along those lines. The development following the defeat of Unit-02 and Unit-00 just followed the course of the original series, where Rei, who is consumed by or united with the angel, tries to take in Unit-01, and, when she notices what she is doing, self-destructs. At this point, I tremporarily stopped working on the script. That was because work on "Prelude" was facing a great crisis, and I had to focus upon it. If I'm not mistaken, at one point I requested image boards and storyboards of the last battle based upon this draft from Shin-chan (Shinji Higuchi's pet name).

---中断していた『破』の脚本作業の再開は、いつごろですか?
--- When was the suspended work on the "Break" script resumed?

庵野 『序』の初号試写の後、しばし放心してからです。そこから改めてあちこち大小の問題点を洗い出し、十月末の脚本合宿やその間のいろいろな意見、自分の考えをまとめて、かなりの部分を書き直した新規版ともいえる脚本、第12稿が二〇〇七年の十二月六日に出てました。このときは、落下使徒戦でマリとアスカをプラグ内に同席させる展開になっていました。それと全編描き下ろし、オール新作の気持ちで書き直しているので、旧作の素材流用が前提のエピソードが大幅に削除されています。
Anno: I was in a daze for a little while following the first "Prelude" screening. From there I once again uncovered various issues, large and small. Gathering [the various opinions expressed at ?] the script retreat held at the end of October, as well as my own thoughts, I revised a large portion of the script, producing what you might call a new version. This twelfth draft was completed on December 6, 2007. At this point, there was a development where, during the fight with the falling angel, Mari and Asuka are present in the [Unit-02] entry plug together. Then I wrote the entire script anew, rewriting it with the feeling that it was an all-new work. Because of that, the parts of the script predicated upon the appropriation of materials [genga etc.] from the original series were largely eliminated.

あと、もうひとつの新たな、大きいな変更点がこの時点で出てきました。ラストでレイがシンジを救うために自爆してしまうのをやめて、シンジがレイを助けるという流れにしたことです。これは「二本目は三本目につながる話でもあるので、希望を持って、気持ち良く終わってほしい」という大月(俊倫)さんのプロデューサーとしての意見によるものでした。この件に関してもまたスタッフ間では賛否両論で、今度は特に鶴巻が変更に反対というか、抵抗していましたね。マッキーは「旧作では影の薄かった三人目のレイを三本目で深く描いて大きくフィーチャーしたい」というか、それが参加動機のひとつみたいなものでしたから。けど、まあ最終的には、レイを助ける話に僕が決めて、「庵野さんがいいなら」と納得してくれました。そっちに決めたのは『破』には「変化」というモノを僕が求めていたからと思います。それがまた、次の変化につながるんじゃないかと、ですね。アスカとレイ、ミサトの役割とかもこのころにはだいたい見えてきましたが、問題はマリでしたね。
In addition, one more new, significant change emerged at this time. Abandoning the scenario where Rei self-destructs in the last scene to save Shinji, I decided on a course where Shinji saves Rei. This was due to (Toshimichi) Otsuki's opinion as a producer that, because [the story of the second part would also lead to the third part ?], he wanted it to end hopefully, with a positive feeling. Regarding this, opinions among the staff were again divided. This time, it was Tsurumaki who particularily opposed, or resisted, this change. Makki said that he wanted to prominently feature Rei III, who was barely present in the old work, in the third part [of Rebuild], developing her in depth. It seemed like this had been one of his motivations for participating [in Rebuild]. However, in the end I decided on the scenario where Rei is saved, and he assented, saying "If it's all right with Anno-san....". I think I decided that way because, with "Break," I was searching for something called "change." As well, I thought this would lead to the next change. At this point I could generally see what the roles of Asuka, Rei, and Misato would be. The problem was Mari.
______________________________________


なかなか異物として入っていかないマリ
" As a foreign element, Mari struggles to enter"

---マリのキャラづくりには、ずいぶんと苦労されたと聞いていました。
--- I heard that you had a very hard time with the creation of Mari's character.

庵野 そうですね。すごく難しかったですね。『新劇場版』を始めるときから絶対的な仕掛けとして「新キャラクター、女性のEVAパイロットをひとり増やす」ということを決めていました。そうでもしない限り、結局は同じ物語を繰り返すことになってしまい、大きく変われないのではないかという危険感を持っていたんだ。無理やりにでも新EVAパイロットという極端な異物を放り込まないと『エヴァ』は大きく変わらないだろうと。だから、最初は本当に強引にマリを物語内にねじ込んだ感じがあります。初期稿ではあまりに突飛すぎて物語に交わらず、マリの存在自体が浮いていましたね。アバンに出てくるだけで、あとはほとんど出番がなかったです。でもまあ、そのときは二本目は顔見せくらいの出番じゃないとアスカやシンジを描けないだろうと見込んでいたので、そのままにしていました。新キャラはストーリーがまるで変わる三本目から描けばいいかと。そっちなら入りやすいだろうし。いや、つくづく甘い見通しでした。
Anno: Right. It was extremely difficult. Ever since I started the new films I had decided on this "one trick" where I would increase the count of female pilots by one with a new character. I felt that there was a danger where, if I didn't do this, I would end up repeating the same story, and be unable to significantly change things. I felt that, even if I had to force it, if I didn't throw a new Eva pilot as an extreme, foreign element into the films, then Eva would not significantly change. At the start, I feel like I forcibly thrust her into the story. The early drafts were so erratic that, being unrelated to the story, Mari's very existence seemed to have no basis. Outside of the pre-title sequence, she practically did not appear at all. But because at the time I expected that, if she made more than a cameo appearance in the second part [2.0], I would be unable to develop Asuka or Shinji or someone else, I left things as they were. I figured that I should develop the new character from the third part [3.0] on, where the story would completely change. It would be easy to insert here there. Well, that was a thoroughly naive outlook.

とにかく、いざ出番を増やすとなると、まるで入ってくれない。もう、出しようがなかったんですね。思ったよりも強固に『旧作エヴァ』はできていました。ストーリーにもドラマにも、なかなかこう、新しい要素を入り込ませる余地がない。旧作もその時点で思いつく一番いい方法を選択して作ってるので、ひとつ壊すと連鎖的に他の要素も壊れてしまって、結果的にはまらなくなっていくんです。
At any rate, when it came down to actually increasing her appearances, I couldn't fit her in at all. It just wasn't possible for her to appear. The original Evangelion had been more rigidly made than I had thought. There was no real margin for new elements to enter into the story or into the drama. I created the original series by selecting the best ways of doing things that I could think of at the time, so if I damaged one element, other elements would become damaged as part of a chain reaction. At the end, I started to get less and less interested in doing it.

これには手こずりました。十年以上前の作品ですが、やはり自分自身で作っているので、なかなか僕からは壊せないですね。自画自賛でなく、改めて「流れ」が良くできていたことを思い知らされました。『旧作エヴァ』は全体が僕の素直な気分と思いつきの書き送りで作られているので、理屈じゃなくでき上がっているんですね。なので、これは他者に、第三者に破壊を手伝ってもらおと。特に鶴巻にですね。あと、僕自身で以前と変わった部分です。そこで変えようと。いわゆる過去の、十二年前の自分との戦いでしたね。かなりの精神力が必要でした。
This was difficult to deal with. The work was more than ten years old, but still, I had created it myself, so it wasn't easy for me to damage. This isn't self-congratulation - I was forced to again recognize that the "flow" was very well constructed. The original Evangelion was entirely created from my unembellished feelings and my improvised writings, so it was not completed according to a theory. As a result, I thought I would get other people, outsiders, to help me destroy it - Tsurumaki in particular. In addition, there's parts of myself that are different compared to that time. So, I tried to change [Eva]. It was a battle with my so-called past self, my self eleven years ago. It took a great deal of inner strength.

---自分で自分の核を否定しかねない作業ですから、苦しさは推察できます。実際には、どんな風にしてマリを入れていこうとされましたか。
--- It's a process where you might end up repudiating your inner core, so I can imagine the pain involved. Practically speaking, how did you attempt to insert Mari into the story?

庵野 まずは人任せからです。自分からイメージを出していくことは極力避けようと。マリの外見のデザインは「イギリスのお嬢様学校に通っていて少しお姉さん的、動物好きもありかも」など、大まかな設定のイメージを伝えてからは、お貞(貞本義行の愛称)とマッキーに打ち合わせは任せて、僕は仕上がりをチェックするという感じでした。出すこと自体は決めていたので、かなり前からキャラクターデザインの打ち合わせは初めていたと思います。貞本もしばらくは四苦八苦と悩んでましたが、「メガネっ娘で、ロングでストレートな髪」とか、早めに方向性できていたと思います。ラフなデザイン自体、『序』の予告に間に合わせていますから。設定画として全体をまとめ直すときにまた悩んでいましたが、結果、いい感じにできてると思います。さすがは、お貞ですね。
Anno: To begin with, I left [certain things] to others. I tried to propose as little of her image myself as I could. I gave O-sada (Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's pet name) and Makki a rough impression of her settei: her outward design was to be that of a English private school girl, a bit "O-nee-san"-like, maybe with a love of animals as well, and so on. After that I left them to work things out; I felt like I would just check what they completed. I think, since it had been decided that [the character] would appear, the teamwork on the character design started at very early stage. I think Sadamoto struggled greatly [with Mari] for a while as well, but arrived in the direction of "a meganekko, with long, straight hair," and so forth, early on. After all, the rough design was ready in time for the preview at the end of "Prelude." He struggled with it again when the time came to gather and revise everything to produce Mari's settei images, but I think the result was very good, as you would expect from O-sada.

しかし、性格はなかなかまとまらずかなり苦労しました。レイ、アスカとエキセントリックなキャラが存在する上に、普通のキャラとしてはすでにヒカリがいて、最初は消去法からのスタートでした。まずは取っ掛かりとして、今までにない性格や外見から作っていこうと。「作画が大変なのでこれまで避けていたメガネをアイテムとして出す」とか分かりやすい部分から作っていました。でもこれだけだと、新キャラではなく、レイやアスカではない「not」キャラにしかならないんです。キャラの配置も含めて旧作は非常に強固にできていましたね。うかつにマリを入れるとドラマやストーリーや全体のバランスが崩れてしまうんです。変化を目指しても、ただ旧作と違うというだけだと、結局は以前のものへのカウンターでしかなかったり......
However, there were some difficulties as her personality wasn't coming together. Things started with a process of elimination. There was already a "normal" character in Hikari, and "eccentric" characters in Rei and Asuka. First off, [we] tried to take those personality characteristics and aspects of appearance that had not been yet been used in Eva as a starting point. She was made up of simple elements; for example, "she wears glasses as an accessory, which we had avoided using up to this point because they were hard to animate." Yet if this were all, she wouldn't be a new character, only a "not" character - whatever Rei, Asuka, etc., weren't. The positions of the characters in the original work were also extremely rigidly constructed. If Mari were to be inserted carelessly the drama, the story, and the balance of the whole would completely fall apart. Although I was aiming for change, if it was only different from the original work, in the end it would be nothing but a "counter" to what had come before......

---確かにそれはそうですね、カウンターということは、同じ価値観に取り込まれてるということが前提になりますからね。
--- That's surely the case, as being a "counter" means that it becomes a premise in which the same sense of values is incorporated.

庵野 そうなんです。いや、難しいですね。二〇〇八年二月十五日付の脚本第13a稿までは、「マリのアバン後の出番を早めて増やし、もっと印象づける。そのために落下天使戦でマリがエヴァの戦闘現場の指揮をとり、嫌がるアスカといっしょうにプラグに入る」というアイデアだったんです。そこでマリがアスカをかばい、アバンのケガが悪化してしまって、ラストの再登板までずっと入院してるという段取りだったんですけど、挫折しました。やはりワザとらしくてしっくりいかないんですね。かといって出番をそのまま続けるとシンジと絡ませるエピソードが必要となり、そのためアスカの影が薄くなり過ぎて、彼女が3号機に乗るエピソードが生かされない。おまけにマリとシンジのエピソードもなかなか「これだ!」というのが出てこない。それにマリを誰も知らないというのは作劇上、会話が膠着してしまうので、「ユーロでのアスカの先輩」と設定したんですが、そうするとアスカの孤立感が薄まって、これまた良くない。と、まあバランスが積み木崩し的に壊れていくんですよ。
Anno: Right. Well, it's difficult. By the draft of February 15 2008, draft 13a, I had the idea that "Mari's appearances following the pre-title sequence will come sooner, be more numerous, and be more impressive. To that end, Mari will take charge of the battlefield during the fight against the falling angel, riding with Asuka, who hates the situation, in the entry plug [of Unit-02]." Then Mari covers [庇う] for Asuka, but a wound she received during the pre-title sequence grows worse, so she is hospitalized until she reappears again in the last scene. That was the plan, but it didn't work out. It seemed artificial, and didn't fit. On the other hand, if Mari continued to to appear, scenes which related Mari to Shinji would become necessary, and because of that Asuka's presence would become too far reduced for the scene where she pilots Unit-03 to be allowed to remain. On top of that, scenes between Mari and Shinji where I felt "this is right" were not coming easily to me. Furthermore, as the screenplay had nobody knowing Mari, the conversations did not go anywhere. So, I made her a senior schoolmate of Asuka's from Europe, but then this weakened the sense of Asuka's isolation, so that was again no good. At that point the balance [of Eva] was coming apart like a tower made of toy blocks.

そんな諸々デメリットと時間切れもあって、Bパートからのマリ登場は脚本ではなく画コンテ作業上で全面カットしました。画コンテには2号機でアスカの後ろにマリがいて大きくバツ印が入っているコマが1カットくらい残っていたと思います。そのシーンは作打ち(作画打ち合わせ)が早い時期だったので、もうそれ以上練り直している時間もなかったんですね。ただ、この改訂稿でCパートまでのマリ以外の部分は、わりとでき上がっています。
[Anno, continued:] With all those various drawbacks and time running out, we totally cut the appearance of Mari in Part B when we worked on the storyboards instead of doing it in scripts. In the storyboards, I think there is about one cut remained that had the frame with Mari behind Asuka on Unit-02 and with a big X-mark inside. The "saku-uchi" [team discussion and working on the drawing] of that scene was done at an early stage, so there was no more time to do re-think for it. But with this revised script the parts except Mari's, up to Part C, became relatively complete.

まあ、細かいセリフ直しやシーンテレコ、トウジ・ケンスケとシンジのくだりやゼールのシーンなど、まだまだ改稿を重ねているところもありましたけど。アスカと母親の話とか、ミサトと加持の少し大人っぽいエピソードとかは、画コンテをまとめる階段で修正や削除をしています。流れがまとまっていくと、シンジに絡まない部分は入らなくなってくるんですね。大人っぽい生々しさというのも極力入れたかったんですが、今回はあえて外そうと。中学生中心でいく、分かりやすい世界観にしました。
Well, still there were also many script revisions piling up concerning small changes in dialogues or switching the scene order in places like the section with Touji/Kensuke and Shinji or the Seele scene. Things like the story of Asuka's relationship with her mother, or the somewhat "adult" episodes between Misato and Kaji, were revised or eliminated at the stage when the storyboards were being brought together. With the "flow" being brought together, we became unable to incorporate parts that didn't involve Shinji. I had also wanted to incorporate as much as I could an "adult vividness," but this time I decided to take the risk of leaving it out. I decided to make it an easily comprehensible view of world building that put junior high students at the center.

---そこまで整理して煮詰めた上で、残りはマリとDパートとなったわけでしょうか。
--- After that much arranging and getting down to what was essential, Mari and Part D still remained [to be dealt with], right?

庵野 そうですね。二〇〇八年一月十四日付の脚本第14稿は、これまでとは切り分けてDパートから始まっています。この時点で2号機にはマリが乗るということでフィックスしてますね。でも、ミサトとシンジの別れとか、マリの2号機暴走後の段取りや使徒が零号機を捕食してからどうするかなど、まだまだ流動的でしたね。マリの登場も五月二十三日付の脚本第13b稿では、学校の屋上でシンジと二人でお茶をしている、という話でした。Dパートは五月から九月くらいまでひたすら改稿を続けていますね。残っているデータだけでも13稿ほどあります。ホント、あれこれとアイデアを出しては消えていった感じです。
Anno: Right. The fourteenth draft, dated January 14th 2008, was separate from what came before, beginning from Part D. At that point it was fixed that Mari would pilot Unit-02. However, Misato and Shinji's separation, what the course of action would be after the berserk of Unit-02 that Mari piloted, what happens after the angel consumes Unit-00 - these sorts of things were a long way from being settled. Mari's appearances, as well - in draft 13b, dated May 23rd, there was a scene where she had tea with Shinji on the roof of the school. For Part D, I focused on continually producing revisions from May to about September. There are 13 drafts just in the data that still remains. Really, it was like all sorts of ideas were coming up and then disappearing.

最初のプロット案が二〇〇六年の八月三日付ですから、シナリオ全体では延べ二年と五カ月くらい紆余曲折を繰り返していたことになりますね。とにかく面白くなるように、日々アイデアをひねり出していた気がします。
The first story plan was dated August 3rd, 2006, so the script went through about two years and five months of repeated twists and turns in total. Anyway, I think I devised new ideas every day in order to make things interesting.

Part 4 [First Segement]

ギリギリまで粘って変更したマリの出番
"[We] persisted in changing Mari's apperances up until the very last minute"

---脚本は、公開が近くなっても変更が続いていたそうですね。
---It seems like the changes to the script continued even though the date of the film's release was getting close.

庵野 ええ。画コンテ担当とDパートの監督である鶴巻が、最後まで粘りましたね。特にマリに関しては。九月二十五日付の第15・2稿で一度画コンテ作業に入っていたのですが、鶴巻が画コンテにする段階でどうしても脚本上で納得できない点があってまとまらず、彼の方からそれについてのメモが出てきました。これらが解決しないと画コンテが描けないと。で、年末年始でスタジオが休みの間に自宅と箱根の旅館にこもって、ひたすら問題をクリアするためのアイデアを考え続けてひねり出して。それらを思いついたときは、うれしかったですね。その問題点の回答としてまとめた脚本が、最終稿になる第16・2稿です。大破した2号機のマリとシンジが待避壕で話すところからカヲルのエピローグの部分ですね。それが二〇〇九年一月十八日付ですから、制作スケジュールギリギリというか、公開に画が全部間に合うか、という状況でした。そこから画コンテ作業ですから、ホントやばいところまで粘って修正をしてましたね。
Anno: Yeah. Tsurumaki, who was in charge of the storyboards plus the director of Part D, perservered until the very end. Especially in regards to Mari. Draft 15.2, dated September 25, was at one point sent to be storyboarded, but when it came time for Tsurumaki to do it, there were things in the script that, no matter what, he was not convinced about. [With these points] unsettled, a memo emerged from him concerning them. He said that if these [problems] were not resolved, he couldn't draw the storyboards. So, during the studio's new year's holiday, we sequestered ourselves at my house and at a hotel in Hakone, and we did nothing but think of ideas in order to clear up the difficulties. We were delighted when we came up with them. The script put together as the solution to these difficulties, draft 16.2, turned out to be the final draft. This was the part stretching from the conversation in the bomb shelter between Shinji and Mari in the heavily damaged Unit-02 to the Kaworu epilogue. That was January 18th, 2009, so it was a situation where we were almost out of time on the production schedule, and didn't know if the images [for the film] would be finished in time for the premiere. We storyboarded after that, so we persisted in revising things to the point of real danger.

---公開まで半年ですね。年を越えてアフレコが始まっても、一部のシーンはまだ収録できる状態までいってなかったように思います。それはマリとシンジの絡むところでしょうか。
---You had half a year until the premiere. It would seem that, even if you had started the afureko [voice recording] after the new year, a portion of the scenes would still not have been in a condition suitable for recording. That includes the parts involving Mari and Shinji, right?

庵野 マリとシンジの出会いは二〇〇九年二月二十八日に、ようやく画コンテができています。マッキーが脚本を画コンテにする段階でアイデアを足して修正した形です。鶴巻がどうしてもマリを空からやって来させたかったんですね。それをクリアするアイデアが出るまで粘った感じです。
Anno: Mari and Shinji's encounter was finally storyboarded on February 28th, 2009. At the stage when Makki storyboarded the script [the scene] was in a revised form with additional ideas. Tsurumaki was determined to get Mari to arrive from the sky. I feel he just kept at it until an idea emerged that cleared [the way for] that.

しかしホント、マリの再登場シーンとなる、シンジとの出会いは何回書き直したか忘れたくらい試行錯誤の連続でした。このシーンも最初は2号機が封印された後に入る予定だったんですが、ラッシュで通して見ると流れが悪く、編集時にあちこちに差し込んでみて、最終的にBパートまで位置を早めることになりました。S-DATが屋上で転がって調子が悪くなるというつながりも実は偶然の産物です。
But really, Mari's encounter with Shinji, the scene where she re-emerges, was created by repeated trial and error; I forget how many times I rewrote it. That scene, as well, was initially intended to be placed after Unit-02 was sealed away, but when we watched the rushes through, it didn't flow properly. In editing, we tried inserting it at various points, and in the end it was decided that the scene would be advanced to an earlier point in Part B. The connection where [Shinji's] S-Dat falls on the roof and begins acting up was really a chance result.
________________________

---他にもマリの単独シーンがあります。
---In addition, there were scenes that just featured Mari.

庵野 マリに関しては最後の最後、編集時に「登場シーンが足りない。途中で忘れる」という意見がお貞からだったかな、出てきました。まあ、屋上のシーンを最初の予定位置より前致しした結果、Dパートでの登場まで間が空いたからそう感じてしまったと思うんです。で、その時点から制作可能な内容として追加シーンを考えることにしました。すでにアフレコは済んでいたので、セリフなしであれこれと考えて、他のカットの別テイクを流用したり、ラフレイアウトを起こして編集で差し込んで確認したりして「こりゃダメだ」というのを何度か繰り返し、最後的に「予定」の原画を使ったシーンをトウジの後に差し込むにしました。いやはや、マリに関してはギリギリ最後まで迷って、いじり致しましたね。こういうのをパッと思いついてくれる能力があれば、と思います。すぐにクリアするアイデアが浮かぶ力が、ほしいですね。
Anno: Concerning Mari, at the very last minute, during editing, the opinion was expressed - maybe by O-Sada - that Mari does not appear in enough scenes, that we forget her along the way. Well, I think he felt this way because, as a result of moving the roof scene to a position earlier than was originally planned, there was a gap until her appearance in Part D. So, we decided to think of additional scenes in the way of content we could produce from that point on. Because afureko was already complete, we thought of various [possibilities] without [using] dialogue, making use of different takes from other [unused] cuts; digging up rough layouts, inserting them in editing, and taking a look at them; and so on. We declared [options] to be useless a number of times, and in the end we decided on inserting a scene that used genga from the 2.0 preview trailer after [a shot of] Touji. Oh my, concerning Mari we really were at a loss and struggled till the very very end. I think for this kind of situation [it would be great] if I had the ability to suddenly hit upon something. I wish I had the power to quickly come up with ideas that could clear the challenges.

---そうした苦労の結果として、マリというキャラクターはどうフィルムに定着したと思われます。
---In what way do you think Mari's character was established in the film as a result of those difficulties?

庵野 出番が少ないわりに印象的な、いいキャラクターになったと思います。これはもう鶴巻のこだわりの賜物ですね。とにかく印象に残るように、と注意深く描いていました。マリは自分の中で他者、エヴァの世界でも異物にしたかったんです。なので、かなりの部分をマッキーに委ねています。僕がイニシアティブを取り過ぎると、既成のキャラになりかねない危険性があったので。結果がすごくうまくいって良かったと思います。キャラに異物感が混じってましたから。声のイメージも自分からは決めず、坂本(真綾)さんの推薦も確かお貞からだったと思います。マッキーもあのとき賛成してたかな。何か言ってたけど、最終的には「いいと思います」みたいなことを言ってたと思います。
Anno: I think she became a good character who for all her short appearance was impressive. This was again due to Tsurumaki's persistence. In any case, we depicted her with great care in order to leave an impression. I wanted Mari to be an outsider within myself as well as an alien presence in the world of Eva. Because of that, I entrusted a significant potion [of the work concerning her] to Makki. If I had taken too much initiative, there was a risk that she might become [just like] the already existing characters. I think the result was very good, and I'm pleased with it, because the character contains something of the feeling of an alien presence. The image of her voice was also not decided by me, and the suggestion of (Maaya) Sakamoto-san, if I recall correctly, was, in addition, made by O-Sada. I guess Makki also approved [of that suggestion] at the time. I think I said something then, but at the end I said something like "I think it's fine".

あれはスタジオ内で飲み会のとき、アフレコ時期も迫ってるのに僕から候補者出ずキャストが未定だった事態にシビレを切らした大月さんが、その場でスタッフに「新キャラの声優は誰がいいか」とリサーチして、そこで坂本さんの名前が出てました。周囲のスタッフの反応も良くて。で、大月さんが「庵野さん、坂本さんでいいよね、決めるよ。明日、事務所に話すよ」「うん、いいよ」と。僕はイベントで挨拶くらいしかしていなかったんですが、なんかいいんじゃないかと思いました。『トップ2(トップをねらい2!)』でもいい芝居でしたし、お貞とマッキーのお薦めなら、間違いないだろうと。まあ、ボンズの南(雅彦)には「庵野がウチのマーヤを勝手に云々」と後でいろいろと呑みのときに言われてましたが(笑)。
That was at the time of a drinking party at the studio. Otsuki-san, who had grown impatient with the fact that, despite being close to the afureko period, the casting was still undecided without me having made any suggestions, was asking staff members then and there which seiyuu would be good for the new character, and Sakamoto-san's name was brought up. The response of the surrounding staff members was favorable. So, Otsuki-san said, "Anno-san, Sakamoto-san is fine; we'll choose her. Tomorrow, we'll talk at the office." "Yeah, that's fine," I said.
[So far] I had only said hello to her in some events, but I thought that [the decision] was something good. She also performed well in in Top 2 (Aim For The Top 2!), and as it was a recommendation from O-Sada and Makki, I thought there would be no problems. Well, later when I went to drink with various people, I was told by Minami (Masahiko) of Bones, "Anno took our Maaya without asking us blah blah" (laugh)

---結果としてはどうですか、真綾さん。
---What was the result like, [using] Maaya-san?

庵野 坂本さん、すっごく良かったですね。十年以上たっていてすでに出来上がっているレギュラーチームの中で気後れすることもなく演じていて。いや、良かったです。最初のテストを聞いたときに「これはいける」と確信しました。唄もうまかったですね。
Anno: Sakamoto-san was extremely good. She performed as part of a regular team that had already been formed more than ten years ago without hesitation. Well, she was good. When I heard her first test I was convinced that it would work. Her song was excellent as well.

---その「三百六十五歩のマーチ」を歌うというのは、庵野さんからの出たアイデアですか。
---Was it your idea that she sing that, the "365-step march"?

庵野 あれは僕ですね。僕が子どものころ聞いていた昭和歌謡です。初陣でもお気楽な感じを出したくて歌わせました。他には立ち上がるのに「どっこいしょ」と言ったり、「よし。そうだ」ってときに思わず手を叩いたりする仕草も、昭和のおやじっぽさをキャラとして出したくて入れていました。料理で言えば最終の塩加減ぐらいのものですが。
Anno: That was me. It was a song from the Showa period I heard when I was a child. I had her sing it as I wanted to bring out a feeling of ease despite it being her first campaign. In addition, wanting to bring out a 'Showa-era old man' feel from her character, I also put in actions like her saying "Dokkoisho" when she stands up, or her unconsciously striking her palm with her fist when she says "Yoshi. So da." [*] To put it in terms of cooking, that was just about the final seasoning.

[*] Mari's actions during the battle with the 10th angel.

---マリのネーミングについては庵野さんからだと思いますが、どんな由来でしたか?
---Concerning Mari's naming, I believe [the name] came from Anno-san, but what was the source for it?

庵野 イラストリアスは英国空母の名前ですね。真希波は旧帝国海軍ではなく海自(海上自衛隊)の「あやなみ型護衛艦」から来ています。式波もそうですね。本編で語るかどうかわかりませんが、『新劇場版』ではEVAパイロットの設定を旧作とは変えています。なので、アスカも惣流から式波に変わっています。マリという名前は、もともと嫁さん(安野モヨコ)の漫画に出ていたキャラの「マリコ」という名前を持ってきていたんですが、いろいろとあって「マリ」としました。まあその方が、ブッちゃん(出渕裕の愛称)も喜ぶだろうし(笑)。
Anno: "Illustrious" is the name of an English aircraft carrier. "Makinami" comes, not from the former Imperial Navy, but from the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force's Ayanami class of destroyers [escort ships]. "Shikinami" is the same. I don't know whether or not I will bring this out in the main work, but in the new films, I altered the settei of the Eva pilots compared to the original. Because of this, Asuka['s name] changed as well, from Soryu to Shikinami. As for the name "Mari," I originally got the name "Mariko" from a character who appeared in my wife's (Mayoko Anno) manga, but for various reasons it was changed to "Mari." Well, Bucchan (Yutaka Izubuchi's pet name) was also probably pleased with the change (laughs).

---出渕さんの喜ぶマリって、『勇者ライディーン』の桜野マリですか?
---The Mari Izubuchi-san enjoys, would that be Brave Raideen's Mari Sakurano?

庵野 ええ。旧作が終わったころにブッちゃんから「アスカとレイって、ライディーンの明日香麗だよね?」と聞かれたことがあり、『ライディーン』にはちょっと疎いので、「そんあキャラいたっけ?」と、ついうっかり聞き返したら「いるよっ!」と力説させたんです。言われるまで気がつかなかったですね。まったく意識していませんでした。途中で「ちづる」にしようかとも思ってましたが、それだとショウちゃん(河森正治の愛称)がかなと。嫁さんのキャラにもいますし、せっかくだからここはライディーンつながりということでブッちゃんの顔を立て、やはりマリとしようと(笑)。
Anno: Yeah. Around the end of the original Eva, I was asked by Bucchan if Asuka and Rei['s names came from] Rei Asuka of Brave Raideen. I was somewhat unfamiliar with Raideen, and unthinkingly responded with the question, "Was there such a character?", upon which I was emphatically told, "Yes, there was!!" Until I was told that, I hadn't noticed it. I hadn't been conscious of it at all. Part-way through [production] I thought about changing [Mari's name] to Chizuru [*]; if I had done that I think it would have pleased Sho-chan (Shoji Kawamori's pet name). There was also my wife's character; and after all happened I finally had a chance to save Bucchan's face by making a link with Raideen; so after all I went with Mari (laugh)

[*] The editor mentions in the endnotes that Anno is referring to Chizuru Nanbara from Combattler V.

---それは実に麗しい友情ですね。
---That's a truly beautiful friendship.

庵野 そうですね(笑)。ちなみに『ライディーン』のマリの声は前半の方が好きです。岡ひろみ、良かったですね。
Anno: It is, isn't it (laughs). By the way, I prefer the voice of Raideen's Mari in the first half of the show. Hiromi Oka - she was good, wasn't she? [*]

[*] Makoto Kosaka, who also voiced Hiromi Oka from Aim for the Ace.
______________________________________________
メインキャラにも様々な変化が……
"There were also various changes made to the main characters..."

---アスカの名前を式波に変えたのは、どういう理由でしょうか。
---What was the reason for changing Asuka's name to Shikinami?

庵野 先の話にも出ていましたが、EVAパイロットに関する設定を変えたので、それに合わせて整合性を待たせるのには名前も変えたほうがいいだろうと。あと、主要キャラの名前が違うというのは、旧作からのお客さんに「今回は違う,新しい感じ」と持ってもらえるかなと考えてもいました。もちろん違和感を感じたり、前の方が良かったということもあると思いますが、ここはあえて変えた感じです。旧作からのファンの人たちもアスカの名前が変わるとまでは予想していないだろうと思ったので、「あ、前と違うんだ」っていうことを衝撃をもって分かりやすく伝えられるし、トピック的にもいいんじゃないかと。
Anno: I mentioned this before, but, because I changed the settei relating to the Eva pilots, in order to provide consistency in accordance with that I thought it was best to change the name. I also thought that the change in name of a main character would enable viewers from the previous work to receive the message, "This time is different, a new feeling." Of course it feels like things are not quite right, and there are things that I think are better in the original, but here I feel like I [had to] risk changing things. As I thought that fans from the original work would probably not expect changes to the extent that Asuka's name would be changed, I wondered if the sense that, "Ah, this is different than before" could be conveyed in a shocking and easy-to-understand way; and I wondered if it might be good as a topic [for conversation] as well.

---確かに、アニメ雑誌に「二号機のデザインが変わった」と記事が出たときには、あまり反響を見かけなくて「あれ?」と思ったんですが、アスカの名前が変わったと発表された途端、ものすごいリアクションがありました。
---Indeed, when articles were published in the anime magazines on the changed design of Unit-02, I wondered what was going on, not seeing much of a response, but as soon as Asuka's name change was announced there was an enormous reaction.

庵野 ファンの大半はメカじゃなくキャラに焦点を合わせてますから、そうだと思います。
Anno: I would imagine so, as the majority of the fans are focused on the characters rather than the mecha.

アスカのキャラづくりも今度、苦労しました。デザイン自体はプラグスーツのマイナーチェンジくらいでよかったんですが、性格や生い立ちが『新劇場版』として定着するまで、大変でしたね。いや、難しかったです。
I also had a lot of difficulties creating Asuka's character this time. For the design itself, it was okay to make not much more than minor changes to her plugsuit, but it was hard establishing her personality and personal history for the new films. Well, it was difficult.

---『破』から参加したマリやアスカだけでなく、レイも大きな変化をみせていたのが印象的でした。特に食事を作ったり、「ポカポカ」という衝撃の発言があったり。レギュラーキャラの変化についても、理由があれば教えていただけますか。
---It's not just Mari and Asuka, who participate [in the new films] from "Break" onwards. It was impressive to see Rei display significant changes as well. In particular, there is the fact that she prepares a meal, or the shock of her saying "poka-poka." Concerning changes made to the regular characters as well, if there were reasons [for this], please inform us of what they were.

庵野 レイはなぜか、自然に「ああなった」感じです。いつもレイってなぜそうなったのか覚えていないんですよ。レイがシンジとゲンドウのために食事会っていうのは、もともとTVシリーズの第四話用に考えていた僕のプロットを思い出して今回入れたんだと思います。そのときはシンジの誕生会だったような記憶があります。それを今回の食事会に置き換えたのかなと。で、脚本1稿からすでにレイが食事を作るエピソードがあります。二〇〇六年九月九日付の第2稿には、レイの「……ヒミツ。もう少しうまくなったら、話す」というセリフが書いてあります。レイがシンジに二度目の笑顔を向けるというところですね。『破』のレイはここからできています。このセリフを思いついたときから、レイは自然に感情が少し表面に漏れてくるキャラになっていってしまった感じです。レイに関しては、無意識ですね。何もコントロールしてません。「ポカポカ」もいつの間にか彼女が勝手に話してる感じでしたね。
Anno: With Rei, for some reason, i just feel "it happened like that" naturally. I never remember why it happened that way. Regarding Rei's dinner party for Shinji and Gendo, that was originally a plot I had thought of using for episode 4 of the TV series. I remembered it and thought I would include it this time. I have a memory of it being, at that time, something like Shinji's birthday party. I think I replaced that with the dinner party this time. So, the episode where Rei prepares a meal was already in the first draft of the script. The dialogue where Rei says, "......it's a secret. I'll tell you when I get a little better [at it]" was included in the second draft, dated September 9th, 2006. That's the second time that Rei smiles at Shinji. The Rei of "Break" was established from this point on. Since I hit upon that dialogue, I feel like Rei spontaneously became a character whose emotions leak a little bit into her outward appearance. As far as Rei is concerned, [I am] unconscious. I don't control anything. With "poka-poka," as well, I felt like she said it of her own volition before I was even aware of it.

シンジもそうですね。自分の中では当たり前過ぎて、主人公なのによく存在を忘れてます。
It's also the same with Shinji. In my mind he is so much a matter of course that, despite him being the protagonist, I often forget that he exists.

ミサトは今回の『新劇場版』では、シンジの対である副主人公としての立場、立ち位置をはっきりさせています。シンジもレイもミサトもアスカも、映画という限られた呎の中での感情の動きなので、ある程度与えられた役割に沿って動いています。やらなければならないことが物語の展開上、すでに決定されている感じですね。これがTVだといろいろ脱線しても回収できる余裕があるので、好きに動いてくれるんですが。映画だとこれは仕方がない。
As for Misato, in the new films, I made her position as a secondary protagonist as opposed to Shinj clear. Shinji, as well as Rei, as well as Misato, as well as Asuka - as they express their emotions within the limited space of a film, to a certain extent they will act in accordance with given roles. I feel that, within the development of the story, things that I have to do have already been determined. If this was TV, even I went on various tangents I would still have room to recover, so [the characters] would act as I pleased. In a film, I can't do anything about this.

とはいえ、登場人物たちはただの旧作の延長ではなく、結果として新しいキャラになってる感じがしました。僕の中ではすでに十四年以上前から存在するキャラたちのに、まだまだ変化していた感じです。特にアスカはキャラ設定から変わりましたね。
Nevertheless, I had the feeling that the characters were not simply extentions of the old work, but were new characters as a result. Although they were characters who already existed inside of me for over fourteen years, I feel like they were still changing. Asuka in particular changed from her [original] character settei.
Imagen

Fui avandonado en los Desafíos de la Muerte 3
Pero sobreviví, ahora nada me importa mas que yo mismo


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